Teekhi Baat with Janta Party chief Subramanian Swamy, on IBN 7.
Hello! I am Prabhu Chawla and our guest for today on Teekhi Baat is the master player of Indian politics Dr. Subramanian Swamy.
SS: Thank you, Prabhuji (laughs)
PC: Aren’t you a player, one man army?
SS: You have the freedom, you are in journalism, can do anything.
PC: Tell me one thing, you are the lone general of your party, there is no soldier
SS: What can I do if you cannot see the soldier? You change your specks
PC: There are many soldiers
SS: many of them, but I speak about enemies and hide my friends
PC: You have fought so many battles in the past years, alone. Recently you had a continuous winning stint but have had a small defeat now, you would be sad now
SS: No, there is nothing surprising about it because, the licenses which have been cancelled now, and the issue of sanction that came up in Supreme Court, in both of these cases I had lost in the high court. But then the people did not notice it. Then I got reprieve in Supreme Court. In present case also, I feel that the trial court judge has done half of my work, he has proved that Chidambaram and Raja both together decided. Now, whether is a criminal or not is a matter of trial, but he decided before the trial hence I feel that I will win in the higher court.
PC: You feel that there are infirmities in the judgement.
SS: There are paradoxes, and at last I understand that the decision has gone against my prayer. But the body will be of benefit to me.
PC: Dr. Saab it seems that you have taken up a mission. But people opposing you say that you have a personal agenda against Chidambaram, because he is also tamilian, you are also tamilian, hence you choose an individual, not the mission.
SS: This is not right because when earlier I had filed a case only against Raja that time Karunanidhi said that I am a Brahmin and he is a Dalit hence I am doing so, when Kanomozhi’s turn came then he said that I am against women, hence they keep on saying such things. But you see the Supreme Court judgements that we have got no concern for personal enmity, what is important, whether there is supporting evidence or not. Now if I have any personal enmity with Chidambaram or not, what difference does it make.
PC: There are tamilian’s in all this, do you think in this whole government, only tamilians are corrupt.
SS: No no I will make it all right, because am getting many complaints from Tihar jail that the cooks are sad as all Tamilians ask Masala Dosa. Now they will have to be compelled to make Pizza.
PC: You will compel them to make Pizza. I will come later to what you are indicating. But don’t you think that there is a contradiction in your stance. There is a collective responsibility in the government, you say that with the Prime Minister you have no enmity, and he is a clean man, but all his ministers are bad men. Is this your strategy or is it your conviction that the Prime Minister is a right man.
SS: No, it is my conviction that he has made no money in this. I have total conviction in that. Now the question is I have to see, because a criminal case is on, that whether on any issue the Prime Minister was authorised, to decide, and he took the opposite decision. According to the documents, the Prime Minister had written to Raja and told him, that auctions it, don’t do it this way. But he didn’t listen as Raja’s godfather was sitting above the Prime Minister.
PC: Even I saw the documents. When the license were on 10th, the then Additional Secretary in the Prime Minister’s office wrote on the file that I have conveyed to the telecom secretary to go be the old file. Hence, the prime minister knew before 10th that this is going to happen.
SS: No, no, as far as what would have the Prime Minister have done if he was a strong Prime Minister, in that he is guilty, like Bhishmacharya in Mahabharat could have stopped the vastraharan of Draupadi but he said that he is majboor and vivash, and he kept on seeing. But he cannot be compared with Durshashan. Hence I say that I will see the Prime Minister later, that to what extent he should be held responsible for this.
PC: Let me do teekhi baat with you, you agree that I was in the Prime Minister’s knowledge before giving the license, that they are being given.
SS: Yes, yes
PC: Then if he wanted to stop he could have
SS: It is not a question of whether he could have stopped, did he have the power to stop it. No. From the first day he was made the Prime Minister because he is spineless.
PC: What are you going to do?
SS: I know that there are political games in this, if the Prime Minister goes then who will come. If the whole UPA goes I have no issue, in which case this Prime Minister will also go, we accept it. But if only he goes, for the post to fall vacant, and for that another yuvraj is made to sit there, this I cannot agree upon.
PC: Hence you will save the Prime Minister.
SS: I hold the whole UPA responsible, then why only the Prime Minister be removed. If somebody has to be removed, all have to be removed.
PC: You cannot see corruption charges against anybody else.
SS: They are not corrupt as much.
PC: I am not speaking about the Prime Minister only ,there are other ministers too. Dr. Subramanian Swamy has given a clean chit to others.
SS: I have not given a clean chit. I am a private citizen, I don’t have CBI, nor enforcement directorate, tomorrow you make me in charge of these, in 10 days, I will make all ministers of UPA land inside.
PC: That is ok, but the impression that is being formed
SS: That has been formed.
PC: That you are an enemy of Soniaji, other people, but the prime minister is absolutely golden, clean for you like the pious Ganga.
SS: Laughs…No no question of pious Ganga
PC: Are you working together, people are say you are working on his directions
SS: Laughs…..that suspicion is there. I am a former minister, I have been a five time MP. I am a public figure if I need an appointment then I will go. That is a different thing, but when I had gone to Sri Lanka recently, our High Commission had done the whole arrangements. That they will have to do because I am a former minister, hence it is a courtesy, it is not compulsion. But they do it every time, whenever I go abroad, the embassy helps me.
PC: Do they do because you are a supporter of the Prime Minister.
SS: Now he fears less about his job because, PM has got affection for me, hence even officers are less scared. During Indira Gandhi’s tenure, no officer used to come to me.
PC: But during Manmohan Singh
SS: Manmohan Singh is a very old friend of mine, of 40 years, how can you say I will not acknowledge, I am not such a person.
PC: Is you friendship ideological, pro market, pro America, all this
SS: He is a dabbu has no spine, but is a good man.
PC: He is ideologically with you
SS: Yes, from the start. After forming the Chandrashekhar Government, I requested him to become the economic advisor.
PC: He used to report to you then.
SS: Then he was our consultant. (laughs)
PC: Now he is your Prime Minister
PC: Professor Subramanian Swamy, you were removed from the post at Harvard, you used to teach there.
SS: No not for the professors post, my course was discontinued. Now there is no need of going.
PC: But tell me one thing, you will not teach now, then what is your source of income, from where. So much expenses you have, so many functions you do, you travel so much, somebody must be donating
SS: Yes, surely, I am an old Brahmin I cannot work without dakshina.
PC: From where does it come.
SS: Come from people, people who have money.
PC: Because you are fighting against corruption. Now Chidambaram will order an inquiry pertaining to you.
SS: How much and many inquiries he has done, he has done so many. During Indira Gandhi’s tenure everyday inquiries against me were done. Today there is no such thing that he does not know about me. He searched everything but got nothing, because I am an open book. Because I don’t hide anything, I openly call out my enemies and say that I am his enemy and am going to get after him.
PC: If Prime Minister says leave Chidambaram you will leave him
SS: If Prime Minister says leave Chidambaram then I will get the Prime Minister inside. Chidambaram is a worst man.
PC: You didn’t get any corruption charges against him.
SS: Regarding corruption, what are you saying.
PC: You talked about documents and he passed everything. But nothing like Raja, who got donation some where
SS: In the Prevention of Corruption Act, which CBI took cognizance about against Raja, it was criminal misconduct. That you gave ample opportunity to Swan Telecom and Unitech to earn money, in Judge Saini’s order he has agreed to it.
PC: But there is money in his account like he took a loan from somebody
SS: No, no,no,no, you are speaking out of ignorance, regarding Raja there is no money trail regarding him till now.
PC: Because you have taken an agenda pertaining to Chidambaram, but not pertaining to Raja
SS: No, no,no,no, this what you are saying. Today one court has said I have not proved, tomorrow some other court will say. It had happened earlier too in the case of license cancellation. The same happened in sanction, when the Delhi High Court dismissed a petition, in Supreme Court I won.
PC: A section of people who oppose you say that you, since RSS cannot fight against him, because he created the name of saffron terror, now RSS is fighting keeping the gun on your shoulder and they have done studies pertaining to the issue.
SS: I have no need to fight against Chidambaram on the issue of Hindu terror because he will drown and die in that issue, because first our government had said that Samjhauta express blasts were done by LeT. This was also told to America, who told it to the United Nations and LeT was declared terrorist organisation. Now they have changed, I say that CBI and Maharashtra police are crying today, because they have no proof. They will all come out.
PC: You are a supporter of RSS.
SS: Am a supporter of RSS from the start. I could have gone to any party when I came from Harvard, that time I became a Jana Sanghi. And that time you were a student in Hindu college at that time,
SS: You had became a teacher, and you know that because I joined Jana Sangh, they had took of my full professorship at IIT. I am clear that in a country like ours, an organisation like RSS is needed to build unity.
PC: From the past some years it has been heard that you are trying to join the BJP.
SS: I, how can I join
PC: BJP leaders say that Swami wants to come, we don’t let him come.
SS: Arre, then they should be ashamed. On the one side they say that Hindu powers …
PC: But you have no following anywhere
SS: I see, the people who say, do they have following. Following on what country, have been elected to parliament five times, out of which three time Lok Sabha. These Rajya Sabha people will say they have following and I don’t.
PC: But you want to come to BJP
SS: Please see, I am an old Jana Sanghi, if BJP comes on the line that they will give importance to Hindutva, then certainly I want to join the BJP. Because, why should be we do division of votes. We have to be together.
PC: Then you will go to NDA
SS: I am engaged to NDA not married.
PC: Marriage has not happened, you have done engagement. That means Gadkari saab, Advani saab will be ready to get you in
SS: Now, that I don’t know, but Gadkari is the president and my relations with Advani have been sweet from the start.
PC: Then you will try to join the NDA
SS: Why should I try, there are many people to represent me, why should I do.
PC: What is you political ideology basically, nobody knows.
SS: This is just public propaganda, I came first day, and this has been stated by Manmohan Singh in public, I said that socialism will not work, we should get market economy. When I became minister, I made that package, of economic reforms. Then I said that Israel should be our friend, that I did, thirdly we should have good relations with China, that I did, and in 1972 I had said that to join this country
PC: But this is economic ideology, free market
SS: No, Hindutva, I wrote in 1972.
PC: All your old associates are Jana Sanghis, RSS people and your people speak against Anna, that you do not agree with Anna
SS: No, no we say that we have difference with Anna that in the current system, we can get results, we have got it. But I know Anna from the time when I want Lok Sabha MP two times form Bombay. He is such an honest individual and I respect him at all times. But the team with him is tilted towards communism. This is what I said.
PC: You are saying that in the present laws itself you can fight against corruption.
SS: Can fight,
PC: Then there is no need for Lokpal
SS: No, I did not say that. I said let Lokpal come when it comes, will get some more help from it. But in the present set of laws too I can do it.
PC: Like you fought via court cases
SS: I did it and showed, many people have been affected. Have got the home minister to sweat, what all he had to do to be in the post, everybody knows.
PC: You shift the agenda and goal post, sometime you fight with Jailalitha, sometime love, today are you friend or enemy of Jailalitha
SS: There is no enmity now. Let me tell you one thing, this dual weighing scale of yours, this I want to point out. On what point Congress party made the Gujral government fall, because they did not let the DMK out, now with the same DMK they entered into an alliance. And the people who gave protection to Dhanu, the bomb person, who blew up Rajiv Gandhi, the same person was made minister on the advice of Sonia Gandhi. BJP once went with AIDMK, then DMK, then third time with AIDMK, you don’t speak about anybody else. Communist are sometimes with Congress, sometimes in opposition. Then what I am saying wrong, I did not leave the Janta Party.
PC: Janta Party you registered yourself.
SS: That is there, I could have gone to any party, Rajiv Gandhi was my very good friend. Narsimha Rao was my good friend, I could have gone, I didn’t.
PC: You are saying that you have no enmity with Jailalitha
SS: Never I had enmity. Please see, I never had enmity, but one time she had got arrogant that she is all that is, that time she had to be taught a lesson, after teaching a lesson.
PC: Now she is working well
SS: She is a good lady
PC: On the Tamil issue, everybody is against Sri Lanka, but you are with them
SS: Who says that Tamilian are in favour of LTTE.
PC: Tamilians have bene killed. You go to Sri Lanka, you get support there, why do you go to Sri Lanka
SS: Because that Tamilians from there also tell me today that, how much relief we feel today, after the LTTE has been finished, we never had that before. And they are finding a way out so that there is some change in the constitution there, and some autonomy is given, then I say that all this issue will be resolved.
PC: Why had you gone to Colombo?
SS: I had gone to pray in Colombo.
PC: You pray
SS: I pray sometimes .
PC: of whom
SS: Kartik mane Subramanya which in Tamil is known as Subramanya there is a old temple six hours form Colombo, a special day which fell yesterday, on seventh, that a shakti pradan is there
PC: Had you gone to demand shakti
SS:Shatru ko naash karne ke liye
PC: Did you get shakti
SS: What do I know, will come to know in few days.
PC: But your purpose was to get some more shakti
SS: That I will get, that is our religion, in Hindu dharma whenever we go for war we ask for strength.
PC: What is the future of Subramanian Swamy.
SS: There is no worry about the future
PC: Your personal future
SS: I don’t worry about the future
PC: Is your future in the BJP, or your own Janta party
SS: What is the difference between BJP and Janta Party, the difference is of B, there is no other difference,
PC: If you get a chance you will
SS: I was there earlier with them,
PC: You said that your engagement has been done, with NDA
SS: Yes, it is no new thing, we had relations from the past.
PC: No, I have asked three questions, your future, is it in the Janta Party, or the BJP, or in Manmohan Singh’s friendship
SS: The friendship with Manmohan Singh will never change. If he does a crime, I will certainly work towards punishing him. But till now I have seen no crime pertaining to him or heard about it
PC: Your future is with the BJP
SS: My future is with Hindutva powers because in this country
PC: You are Hinduwadi
SS: I am Hinduwadi because I think that this is a religion that can get all of us together.
PC: Now, today’s fight is against Chidambaram, not against anybody else
SS: No, no, no, no we went one by one, Chidambaram’s name has not come till now, earlier it was Raja, then Kanimozhi, then Maran, now it is the chance of Chidambaram, after that more people
PC: You will see
SS: No, No, it is not about I will see, I have a list, according to which I will go and if you give me a post I will do it in one stroke.
PC: This is a trailer, the movie is left
SS: No, to collect my powers, one by one I have to go.
PC You have shown a trailer, but you movie is left, thank you for coming to our studio.